Jessica Setnick is your favorite kind of dietitian - she knows her stuff but doesn’t take herself too seriously. She blends her personal eating disorder recovery story with 24 years of experience in the eating disorder field as she writes, speaks and interviews worldwide, sharing the message that everyone needs a safe place to talk about their eating and everyone who wants help should be able to get it. Her advocacy work knocking down insurance barriers to treatment and systemic bias in healthcare has made a difference, but she’s not done yet. I'm excited that Jessica is joining me here today and can't wait to hear more.
Connect with Jessica:
www.FoodFairyTales.com is the link to my workbook (discount code
www.EatingDisordersBootCamp.com is the link to my professional training
www.JessicaSetnick.com is my homepage
Instagram: @understandingnutrition instagram.com/understandingnutrition/
Facebook: @jessicasetnick facebook.com/jessica.setnick/
Twitter: @jessicasetnick twitter.com/@jessicasetnick
Linkedin: @jessicasetnick linkedin.com/in/jessicasetnick/
We talk about:
1. Why is it so hard to change our eating?
2. How do we know if our eating is a problem?
3. How do we separate food and feelings?
1. How do you define or envision body image?
2. Can you change your body image?
3. What if you can't accept your body?
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.
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SHOW NOTES AT
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AUDIO TRANSCRIPTION
(00:00):
Jessica set is your favorite kind of dietician. She knows her stuff, but it doesn't take herself too seriously. She blends her personal eating disorder, recovery story with 24 years of experience in the emotion in eating disorder field. As she writes, speaks in interviews, worldwide sharing the message that everyone needs a safe place to talk about their eating and everyone who wants help should be able to get it. Her advocacy work, knocking down insurance barriers to treatment and systemically bias in the healthcare in healthcare has made a difference, but she is not done yet. I'm excited that Jessica is joining me here on the thriving thyroid podcast. And I can't wait for you guys to hear more.
(00:56):
Welcome back to the thriving thyroid podcast, where we choose to become empowered patients and take our health into our own hands. Hi, I'm Shannon Hanson, a Christian entrepreneur, a mom of three. And after dealing with my own health mysteries, I made it my mission to learn everything I could about the thyroid. I soon became certified as a holistic wellness practitioner, a functional nutrition practitioner and a functional diagnostic practitioner. And so much more after that, I founded the revolutionary thyroid program, the Hanon method as a health professional and a mom. I fully understand the importance of having a fun, simple, and sustainable plan for achieving a responsive thyroid. So I share actionable and practical strategies for developing a responsive thyroid so that the ambitious moms and women can gain freedom from fatigue and lose the thyroid weight once. And for all each week, I will be here for you along with my guest experts, we will be sharing simple and tangible tips that work for not only your thyroid, your hormones, your family, and your mindset, so that you can get back to living the life that you envision for yourself. Welcome to the thriving thyroid podcast.
(02:20):
All right, guys, welcome back to the thriving thyroid podcast. I have Jessica Nik with me on today's podcast. I'm really excited to hear what she has to say about dysfunctional eating behaviors and maybe how we can notice some trends and topics, or, you know, better evaluate our own relationship with food. So welcome, Jessica.
(02:42):
Thank you. Glad to be here.
(02:44):
Yeah. So give us a little bit of a background as to how you got started in working with people with eating disorders and those dysfunctional eating behaviors.
(02:55):
Sure. So I'm an accidental nutritionist. I didn't know what, what I wanted to do with my life or career. And so I was in college and I was working on a degree in anthropology, not really knowing what I was gonna do with that career. And someone said, oh, here's my nutrition book. You should take nutrition. It's an easy a, so I took nutrition as an elective and I did not remember it being an easy a, but I do remember being so entranced by the idea of what happens to food. Once it goes inside your body, it was just something I had never given a lot of thought, right? Because it just happens automatically. And not only that, but that from the anthropology perspective, which if you don't know, and I wouldn't know if I hadn't been an anthropology major anthropology is the study of human development, whether it's over time or in cultures or physically.
(03:42):
And so to me that brought this perspective of not just what happens to food, once it goes inside your body, but why you make the choices you make, why you pick certain foods over other foods, what your cultural messages are about foods. So it became a really interesting combination for me. And so when I was in school graduate school to become a dietician, even though I feel like it, you know, that sort of aspect of the psychology of eating and why people make the choices they make and you know, why people sometimes feel regret after they eat, or, you know, that kind of thing that really, to me belongs in every aspect of nutrition. But at that time, this is we're talking about the 1990s, really the only area of nutrition where it was really talked about was in eating disorders. And so that became the place where I felt like I got it.
(04:30):
Like that made sense to me, even though I didn't realize at the time that I had had my own eating disorder, because like a lot of people, when I was doing my studies, I looked at those criteria in the books and I was like, well, mine was never that bad. It was plenty bad, but just because it didn't meet those exact check boxes, I felt like, oh, I didn't count. I didn't really have an eating disorder. And so it it's like I, I realized it during my, my education and, and really more even during my career that a lot of people feel that way, that, that, that your eating disorder isn't or your eating isn't bad enough. And so that became sort of, my mission is to help people recognize that no matter where you fall on the spectrum, if there are problems happening related to your eating, then you deserve to get help. And so the more I spoke out about that, the more I became sort of known as a speaker on the topic. And so eventually I closed my private practice in 2013, and I became a speaker full time to try to educate people about eating disorders.
(05:30):
I love this. And I, I don't know why this kind of triggered you introducing that way into what it brought to my mind. But I, I was sitting here thinking about emotional eating and, and how maybe, maybe, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, how some people associate their eating behaviors to emotional eating. Is there a connection there?
(05:58):
Yeah, absolutely. We all have feelings, right? We all have multiple feelings a day. It's I think of it as a roller coaster. You can't see my hands if you're listening to the audio, but I'm thinking I'm using one hand to sort of make the dips that in turns that a roller coaster might make, on the other hand, your, your food is your needs for nutrition are pretty stable. So the problem happens when, and I'm putting my two hands together. Your food is on the roller coaster. If your food tracks with your emotions, then depending on how you're feeling, it's gonna make a big difference in how you eat. And our bodies need a little more consistency than that. There's nothing wrong with eating for emotions sometimes. I mean, the classic example is eating ice cream out of the container. Yeah, <laugh> right after a breakup it's in every romcom sitcom, whatever novel.
(06:46):
So who cares if you eat ice cream outta the container on Saturday night? Cuz you're after your breakup, you be hungry, you're eating for sure. But the, the problem is if not because of that breakup that happened nine years ago, there's the aspect of, yes, you're eating food that your body maybe doesn't need for fuel, but also you, you obviously have some emotions that haven't been dealt with. And so eating for emotions is not necessarily is not a good or bad, like moral value and making no judgment on it. But I'm saying it's not a, an effective solution. It doesn't actually feed your body what it needs and it doesn't actually help your emotions the way you need. So it's important to, to look at why we're eating and determine, you know, what's our motive. And if it's really successful in that way, you know, it's kind of like answering the phone when it's not ringing. Like, you know, we pick up our phones all the time trying to get something out of it, but sometimes you're just like, okay, no, one's calling no one's texting. No one's Instagramming me. You know what I mean? It's like, there's nothing there and it feels kind of empty. It's the same thing. If you eat food for emotions, your emotions, aren't getting solved. So you either give up or you eat more food, thinking more will be better and the emotions still never get solved.
(07:59):
Yeah. So I, I really appreciate that. I wanna kind of dive into and define what dysfunctional eating behaviors look like.
(08:11):
Sure. Okay. So one thing that's really important to think of that is that food is a mood alter chemical. And we don't think of it that way. Usually. I mean, we think of substances of abuse, right? But if you think about being hangry and you're snapping at someone you love, and then you eat something and you feel better, that's an example, right? Food is a mood altering chemical, well, different people are more susceptible to that sort of mood altering approach than others. And so it can become a, a misuse of food. When I say dysfunctional eating behaviors, I guess I think about a misuse of food. So either eating or not eating or exercising or over exercising or self harm or, you know, compensatory behaviors. So meaning someone trying to get rid of their food after they eat those kind of things, all fit under dysfunctional eating behaviors.
(09:03):
To me, it could be anything, anything anyone's doing with their food. It is not actually supportive to their goals or productive to their life. So I'm not too picky about what the behaviors are. They could be anything that anyone doing. It could be hiding food or eating here alone. It could be eating one way when you're with your friends in a different way when you're with your family. So any of those things that sort of feels, I'll say inauthentic to you and your body and your needs, I would count that as dysfunctional eating, eating everything on the plate, because you feel like a bad person. If you leave over food or if you throw away food not ordering what you really want, because you're scared. You know, any of that falls into the category of dysfunctional eating to me.
(09:46):
I, I love that because I love that you talked about eating alone or, you know, eating one way in a certain environment and then flip flopping to another environment. And I have friends <laugh> who, because they're like, well, I know you study nutrition. I know all the things they're like, I'm gonna order this because I don't want you to think I'm whatever. And I'm like, I don't care what you are ordering. You know? Like, I really don't care. I want you to get what you want, but they feel prejudged.
(10:18):
Yeah.
(10:19):
Because I'm sitting down and eating with them. And so I, well,
(10:23):
What's fascinating about that to me is first of all, they're judging themself, right? They're just projecting it onto you. But also the fact that any actual competent nutritionist knows that what one person eats at one particular time is not reflective of anything. It's what you eat over days, weeks, months, and years, that makes a difference. Right? So it's so ironic that they're thinking you're a nutritionist. So you're gonna be judging me when really only a very crummy nutritionist would be judging someone based on one meal that they eat.
(10:53):
Yeah.
(10:54):
So they're basically insulting you. <Laugh>
(10:58):
I, I mean, I don't take it as an insult. I just take it as like, you know, I, I want you to love what you're eating and if we're going out to eat. Yeah. Then, you know, it's one, like you said, it's one meal and we need to be able to move past that judgment. Yeah.
(11:15):
But that's the number one predictor of dysfunctional eating behaviors is if someone eats differently when they're alone or doesn't eat when they're alone or feels guilty when they're alone. But there's, yeah. If there's a difference between how you eat with others versus how you eat alone. Now, granted, you know, if you ask me, Jessica, do you eat differently when you're alone? I would say yes. When my husband goes outta town, I eat sardines and trikes for dinner. Cuz I love that my grandparents used to eat that with me and my husband hates the smell of sardines. So that's not necessarily dysfunctional eating behavior, but you might follow up and say, well, are you scared to eat sardines in front of your husband? Like, do you have to buy sardines and hide them in your sock drawers? Or your husband doesn't know you bought that. Like, you know what I mean?
(11:55):
It's like kind of, you know, you can sort of follow up and say just because I might eat differently without my husband doesn't mean I'm scared of my husband or scared of him knowing I eat sardines. It's just sort of a courtesy. Let's say if I really, really wanted sardines when he was around, I would, I would achieve that somehow. But, but there's a lot of things that aren't quite as benign when you're talking about what you do differently. Like in front of other people, I eat keto, but when I'm alone, I binge on a whole pizza. You know, those are things that I hear from people. And they're so ashamed of the things they do in secret. When really, you know, again, I said that was one of my missions is to take it off of being ashamed and say like, why do you think that happens?
(12:37):
And really look at it. And then other people are, are the opposite to eat a pizza in front of other people. But when they're alone, they maybe won't eat or they'll only eat, let's say fat free. You know, people have so many different eating quirks and I felt like we should just be able to talk about them and, and evaluate them. And that's kind of what I tried to do in my food fairy tales workbook is just say here, why, why not look at all the messages that you've got gotten throughout life about food. And then you can make a decision as an adult of which ones you actually wanna follow, which ones make sense to you in your life now, as opposed to what are just beliefs that someone kind of stuck on you when you were younger and you just carried it all the way through with you.
(13:14):
Yeah, I can totally appreciate that. And that kind of leads me to the next part about why is it difficult for us to change eating habits and patterns? Because I feel like when we think about the, the diet roller coaster, right? Where people jump on the diet and then they fall back into their old habits and then they jump back on another diet and then they fall back, you know, and they're only following that diet plan or that nutrition plan, whatever you wanna call it for two to three weeks. And then it gets too hard or life sets in or, you know, whatever the excuse is. So why, why is it so difficult for us to change some of those behaviors?
(13:55):
Yeah, well, we all love a new project, right? We all love to get the supplies for a new craft or something like that. And now it's gonna be our new hobby and then, you know, the enthusiasm sometimes falls away after a while. And I think that's sort of the allure of diets to me. It's not surprising at all that people can't stick to most diets. It's more surprising that we keep trying the next one, that we haven't learned our lesson, that we can't think of that. Right. So the reasons are, you know, there's a lot of reasons. One reason is because most diets don't take into account what you're already doing. And so as you know, a good nutritionist is gonna say something like, well, tell me about your patterns. Tell me about, you know how do you decide when to eat? How do you, how do you decide how much to eat and let's work from that and, and make a new plan based on the way you already think.
(14:47):
But new diets usually are based on someone else's way of thinking. Like either someone else thinks based on calories or someone else thinks based on exchanges or someone else thinks based on food groups or avoiding a food group. And so it doesn't necessarily mesh with our own kind of system that's in our brains, even if our schedule is fine, you know, it's like the way we think is just so ingrained. And if you think about thoughts, that's sort of going down path, you know, you start, you try to have a new thought and it's like, you're going down an unpaved road. And you know, it's always easier to jump on the super highway and just go 85 miles an hour. And so that's the same way our brain pathways work is, you know, we can just automatically be in the middle of a behavior and then realized suddenly, oh, I'm not supposed to be doing this, but our brain sort of auto piloted onto our old habits. And so it's really hard to change habits and especially with a new diet, you're trying to usually change a lot of habits at one time. So it's not even like driving down an unpaved road, it's like driving down an unpaved road on Mars. And it just, you know, we cannot sustain that much. Let's say drama in our lives, I think on an ongoing basis. That's why small changes, you know, over time almost to the point where you don't even notice that they're happening are usually more sustainable.
(16:05):
That was gonna be my question is how does someone start down that path? And I, in my mind, what I would've told someone is, you know, start by drinking water. If you're drinking diet Coke all the time, or Dr. Pepper is kind of my thing, but, you know, start with reducing the amount of, let's say caffeine and increasing the water until it becomes like, oh, I just always go to the water tank,
(16:30):
You know? Yeah. And, and, and expect, expect, don't expect rapid change. I mean, I just heard on the radio today, this commercial for, oh, I don't even know what, but the gal goes and I lost nine pounds the first week. Well, yeah, everyone gets dehydrated their first week on a new diet and you never lose that same amount of weight again. So basically you telling me, you lost your first week on dial. That's your sustainability of your weight loss at all. And that's where I think we, we want these big effects. We wanna make big changes. And so little changes sound like kind of stupid and boring, and that's not gonna have any big effect, but that's honestly the way to make sustainable change. And so you have to kind of look big picture at yourself in two years. And yeah, if you, you know, maybe your weight's only changed by, you know, 10 or 15 pounds in two years, and that sounds awful to you, but then you never have to look at those 10 or 15 pounds again, versus you could follow diet after diet and lose that same 10 or 15 pounds and gain it back five more times in the same two years.
(17:33):
Yeah. But we want big results and we want them back
(17:36):
<Laugh> well, <laugh>, I think a lot of that comes from how fast we can get other information, right. We're in a, a day and age where it's like, I can pick up my phone and Google something and I've got an answer, right. My kids will ask me, mommy, why does whatever? And I'm like, I don't know, let's look it up. You know, mm-hmm <affirmative> or one of our famous ones is mommy, how did drafts do drafts fight? And I was like, I have no idea, you know? And we looked up on, on YouTube. Yes. Drafts fight. And they swing their necks and they hit each other. And, you know, we were able to instantly, I mean, pretty instantly, less than 30 seconds have not only an answer, but a video to back it up to show us because we don't live in
(18:20):
Africa. But it's so interesting that you use that as an example, because when it comes to something like eating or weight or nutrition, there's so many different opinions that you can't just watch a video and be like, there's my answer. You have all the opinions from different people and you have to take into account. Who's gonna make money off you. And right. And, and what is their vested interest in giving you information? That's actually more like a sales pitch kind of preying on your desperation in the moment. And unfortunately that's where like, something like Noom comes in where they are just known for praying on people's desperation and don't really have answers, but they use the right words in their ads that make people think like this is gonna be the new thing. This is gonna be the answer. And then they just give you like red light, green, light, yellow light calorie restriction, just like, you know, glamor magazine in 1975 that you, you know, but you're on a recurring credit card payment now.
(19:14):
And yeah. You know, it's that kind of thing. That's why they just had to settle a hundred million lawsuit because, you know, they're basically saying here's new information, but it's not new information at all. And so I feel like there's, there's such a, like a weight phobia in our world that, you know, it does make us feel like, wait, if I'm feeling bad about myself, I can change my weight and then feel better about myself. And that just leaves us open to being so deceived. And so there's just so much more of that. I think you're right. There's so much more information that sort of alluring and not enough. And, and yes, there's messages that say things like you're good enough the way you are and that kind of thing. But it's the messages in our heads that also get in our own way. So if you're trying to change and you have, you know, these sort of underlying thoughts that haven't changed, just changing behaviors when you haven't changed.
(20:02):
Thoughts is really hard to do. It's like, you know what, someone in recovery from alcohol might call white knuckling it like you're just sitting there going, I will not eat carbs. I will not eat carbs. I will not eat carbs. I will not eat carbs, but you know, willpower, isn't really a good solution for, you know, your body's human needs. And so obviously one of those is gonna win out by the end of the day. So often people can maintain, you know, a certain restrictive diet for part of the day or for a few weeks, but, you know, normal human survival often takes over. Now the exception of course is when someone develops anorexia and they're not able to ever, you know, start eating up again. And so that's a real concern, of course. And I have heard people say things like, oh, I wish I could just develop a little anorexia and then I could just lose the weight and keep it off. And I just feel so sad because that is such a misunderstanding of what anorexia is. It's like living in a hellish situation that no one would wish on the worst enemy. So I don't judge the people who say that because they're just saying what they, you know, have what they imagine is true, but it makes me realize we've done a terrible job sort of explaining what eating disorders are in our society. If people in any way would admire, you know, or say they want to have one.
(21:21):
Oh yes. A lot of thoughts in that, in that little will nugget, I guess, because number one, right? If we look at the, the belief cycle and as you guys listeners, you can't see <laugh>, I wish this was almost like recorded and you guys could watch it live and see some of the things, but our beliefs create our thoughts and our thoughts create our emotions. Those emotions dictate our actions, which gives us our result. But then that, that result that we get fuels the belief that we have. And so we end up on this like circle and we keep going down this path. And so Jessica, for someone who's trying to maybe break that cycle of I don't even know what to, to label it, but a poor, let's just say a poor relationship with food or a relationship with food that might need to have some healing to it. How could, how could they start to maybe move off of that belief cycle and yeah. To start to change those patterns.
(22:27):
So the first step is to accept that you don't do weird stuff or unhelpful stuff or unuseful stuff with food because there's, you're a bad person or anything like that. Like just get the shame out of there, whatever it is just, you know, you don't have to eat around people. If you feel ashamed, I'm just saying, start getting the message into your mind that I do the things I do with food, because in some way they serve a purpose. And that's number one, it's not about you being a bad person or a failure or anything else. I do the things I do with food because they serve a purpose. And so your goal is to figure out what purpose that is to try to figure out what the feelings are. Now. Granted, there are some eating disorders that don't really have anything to do with feelings.
(23:08):
Excuse me. Like for example, I'm thinking of someone who came to see me because she was feeling really compelled to eat all the time. And she would, if she was in line in the carpool, even though she knew, if she left the carpool line, she would be late to pick up her kids. She just felt like I have to get something to eat and she would drive into drive through somewhere and then be late to pick up her kids and just feeling really compelled to eat like that. And after I did an evaluation, I felt like she really needed to see an endocrinologist. And she ended up having a tumor on one of her glands that was surgically removed. And then voila, she didn't have those compulsive eating habits anymore. So there are physiological things that happen, right? Hyper and hypothyroid and hypoglycemia, concussions.
(23:51):
There's all kinds of things, migraines that can cause people to eat, not eat, you know, try to find the, the food that's making the problem and not eat it anymore. And so there, there are physical things. So not every eating disorder is triggered by emotions, but if you're feeling ashamed of what you're doing with food, just to know that it's not a shameful thing, you're either responding to something physical or something emotional. And to try to start to figure it out, usually means either writing it down or talking with someone. And so talking with someone is probably the best especially an expert like an eating disorder specialist, even if you're not sure you have an eating disorder and I'm a dietician. So I'm personally a fan of eating disorder, dieticians, cuz I think we're really good at sifting apart. What might be good to talk about and talk therapy versus what you could actually change about your eating.
(24:40):
But if you're not ready to talk with someone about it, start writing it down, whether it's in your phone or in a journal or on a legal pad or in the food fairy tales workbook and start figuring out what are the feelings behind what you're eating and the way I approach it in food fairytales is to go back in time in a timeline and look at how long ago things, you know, what were the messages that you got about yourself and food. And it's really easy for people to say that happened so long ago. It's not affecting me anymore. But unfortunately the longer ago something happened to you, the younger you were when it happened, the more of your life has developed around it. And the fewer coping skills you had to explain, you know, why it was happening to you. And so a lot of times when you're feeling ashamed about eating, it has something to do with a message that you've gotten far back in your past that might take a while to even identify because it seems so unrelated, right.
(25:32):
That thing that happened so long ago seems so unrelated. And I'm thinking of when I was in kindergarten, I remember very clearly that my mom was always late to pick me up and maybe she wasn't late every single time, but that's the, the way it seemed right as a child. And this was in the seventies, this was where the kindergarten teachers would just lock up and be like, okay, I'm sure your mom will be here soon and leave. And maybe tell the secretary, like there's still a kid here. Don't lock her in overnight. And so, oh my goodness. I would literally be alone waiting for my mom to come pick me up. And I remember I would, each kindergarten classroom had a kitchen, little kitchenette and I would climb up on the countertop and I would look through the cupboards to find something, to eat some Graham crackers or some animal cookies or something like that.
(26:14):
And I, you know, a equate that now and look back and think maybe I was hungry. Maybe I needed a snack that's certainly possible. But I also was probably looking for comfort, something comforting, you know, and, and food is a, a good proxy for comfort when you don't have comfort. And I think we've all seen a lot of that in, you know, COVID 19 times that it's really, you know, there's isolation and loneliness and confusion and concern and anxiety and worry. And sometimes food is, you know, something we can turn to. And so it's something that I now can look back and say, wow, you know, there may be a connection between me comfort eating at five years old and me developing bulimia, you know, in my twenties. And, and to be able to look at that, but it's really hard sometimes because you think of these things that happened when you're younger as just like either a one off or, you know, not a big deal or kids will be kids or things like that.
(27:08):
And you don't realize that you're the same person. I'm the same person that climbed up on the counters, looking for food, just, you know, I carry that five year old with me, wherever I go. I, my body looks different and I'm older, but I'm a product of those experiences. So I think it is important to look back. Sometimes it's more painful than others. And, but to, to try to identify what we're still carrying with us, that maybe we might be willing to either let go or to say, you know what, that information served a purpose for me at a time. But I, as an adult now I'm choosing not to continue on in that path, but it's tough to do. It's tough to do. And you have to take the shame off. Otherwise you don't even wanna look at it. Like if I felt ashamed of being in kindergarten, climbing up on those counters, which I, I did for a long time, I wouldn't be able to talk to you about it and just talk about it.
(27:55):
Like it was, yeah, it was an incident and it was a bummer and you know, I will never be late if I can help it to pick up anyone ever airport kindergarten doesn't matter because I was hurt by that experience. And you know, it sticks with me and you know, luckily it's not impairing my functioning. But you know, for the most part, I I'm, I'm not ashamed of it because it just was, it was just an experience. And that's what I'm trying to bring to people that instead of, I mean, the things people have told me, they're embarrassed about what they're eating. You wouldn't, you wouldn't even think someone could possibly be embarrassed about it, but it's like if they were traumatized or if they were punished for doing that thing, you carry that with you.
(28:38):
Yeah. Yeah. So I, I wrote down some notes because I felt like that was so good. So <laugh>, so the first thing I wanna talk about is how experiences, and this is something that I had to learn. And I guess what triggered this was for me in this, in this moment was working on inner healing, that inner child, cuz all of us have experiences that as a child, we, like you said, we don't have the words. We don't have the life experience. We can't adequately express ourselves, you know, to maybe our parents, Hey, you left me multiple times. And that really, I was scared I was alone. You know, whatever those feelings were, we didn't have that. So obviously healing that inner child and going back and doing that work. But then later as an adult recognizing and realizing that the experiences that we have they're neutral and this was really hard for me to grasp because everything is just neutral. It only becomes good or bad when we compare them to something else. Right. So being left alone, that would be a negative because we compared it to all of the other kids getting picked up on time. Sorry I'm using you as an example. Hopefully that's
(29:56):
Okay. That's okay. That's okay. I'm safe. I'm safe in my own home. It's 20, 22 it's Akay
(30:02):
Yeah. Okay. You know, but you know, compared to, you know, the kids that were picked up on time and not left alone, then it becomes a negative because for whatever reason, right? Yeah. We can make up
(30:15):
All the stories you stories ignored unsafe. Yeah, exactly.
(30:18):
Yeah. Yeah. All the stories I'm gonna get locked in here alone, you know, like what, what if something happened to my mom? And so even for myself, I've had to do that inner work and look at some of those things happening in my own life and say, okay, was this really good or bad? You know, maybe it was that person said that thing. And I internalized it as a bad thing, but it really wasn't. Right. They were maybe saying it because they didn't know because they were trying to show love and compassion, but it wasn't in a way that I thought was nurturing, whatever. Right. so anyways, things are experiences are neutral. They become good or bad when we compare them. The second part to what I was thinking and I, I hope everybody took notice of what you said, Jessica, because I feel like this was so good.
(31:08):
Number one, writing things down and, and like in a food journal, right. Just taking notice of behaviors. And then the second part of that would be create a timeline of events that have happened that could be feeding or fueling this relationship that you have with food. And I've, I, I obviously I work with thyroid, but those are actually two things that I, I have my women do is to create what I call a medical timeline, where we're looking at some of those antecedent before we get to the thyroid. And it's the same thing as what you're recommending, but from an emotional standpoint, right. Mm-Hmm, <affirmative> so, so good. And it's easy to start doing so
(31:57):
Well. And you know what you you just made me think of something. I made a note to send you a link to an article. I wrote about food diaries, because I think I called it originally. I'm not sure what it's called now, but at the time I think I called it food diaries stink because I feel like the way people sort of envision food diaries is like, I was good today. I was bad today or they keep track of calories or something like that. And so I kind of reenvisioned what a food diary could contain and I wrote an article about it and how it could be more helpful because I think a lot of people, when you say not you, but when, when they hear food diaries, they're like, oh, I don't want anyone to see what I'm eating. And to realize that you can actually have a really effective food diary, even if you don't write down what you ate, but if you go down when you ate and why you ate like those things give you good information too. So I'm gonna share that with you so that you can link to that in the show notes.
(32:47):
Yeah. I'm really excited to see what you said. And at least for me, one of my class assignments when I was going through school was to, to keep a food journal and or food diary, whatever you wanna call it. And I wrote like, I didn't write down how much I was eating. I didn't write down, you know, how I was feeling or anything like that. What I, all I did was wrote down the time and then what I ate and I've talked about this on other podcast episodes where I noticed <laugh> that every day around 12 o'clock one o'clock I was starting to eat chocolate and peanut butter and things like that. And that was my coping mechanism to deal with my daughter who was a terrible sleeper. And I'm preparing myself emotionally to wrestle her to, you know, to, but I was using the chocolate and the peanut butter to cope with that. And that was, I, I, it was something that I was doing unconsciously and I didn't even notice until I started keeping those keeping track of that. And that was like, oh, okay. And again, neutral <laugh> right,
(33:58):
Right.
(33:59):
And then I could change the behavior and you know, I, we, we could get into that later, but <laugh>
(34:06):
Well, it is shocking to realize how much we are not in conscious control of our behavior, cuz we think we are, we're like I walk to the cupboard, I got the peanut butter out. So we don't realize how much of that is unconsciously driven. And I can share with you that I once was at the grocery store as a young employed person who was like shopping for myself for, you know, the first time and had my own money and that kind of thing and saw this giant Mr. Goodbar. And I was like, and now you kind of see those big candy bars sometimes more often, but I had never seen this giant Mr. Goodbar. And I was like, I want that. And I didn't know why, cuz I didn't even really wanna eat it. But I was like, I'm a, I'm I'm a working person.
(34:47):
I can buy whatever I want. And so I spent whatever, 2 99 on this, Mr. Goodbar, cuz my parents couldn't tell me, I couldn't have a chocolate bar that big, you know? And so I took it home and again, I, I wasn't really interested in eating it. It wasn't one of those things that you like get in the car and immediately get excited and start eating. I just put it on the counter. I was kinda like, I wonder why I want that. And all of a sudden hit me like a ton of bricks, but the day was May 19th. That was my dad's birthday. My dad died when I was 12 and the only candy I ever saw my dad eat was Mr. Goodbar. He loved the Mr. Goodbar. And so it was like this totally subconscious way of my, of, of connecting with my dad on his birthday.
(35:25):
Yeah.
(35:25):
And I, I mean, I wouldn't have believed it if it hadn't happened to me because I was like, whoa, like the idea that there's something that, that sort of drew me to that behavior that I had no conscious understanding of. And it didn't hit me until a while later why it was so if you can figure out your unconscious motivations, that's amazing. I'm impressed that you, I I'm curious if you know how you made the connection between what you were eating and your daughter's sleep pattern because that's just, and another thing is no one can, can do it for you. Yeah. Because no one knows what the links are for you. You know? I mean someone can help talk you through it and coach you, but ultimately it may be really surprising.
(36:06):
Yeah. I don't know why the chocolate and peanut butter <laugh> I, I mean, I just know, well I have some suspicions. I was so yeah, we won't go into all of, all of those connections,
(36:17):
But that's okay.
(36:18):
<Laugh>
(36:20):
Go too deep. Your personal life.
(36:22):
I no, no, no. I don't mind sharing that part. I, okay. I'll just share a little bit, I, I don't wanna go too much into detail cuz I, I don't know if it's, you know, if the listeners really care, but so one thing I would start in high school two days before my cycle is I would eat chocolate chips because that was like the only chocolate in our home. You know, every, all the, the sweet treats and goodies my mom would hand make. So if we had brownies, she would make 'em from scratch. If we had cookies, she would make 'em from scratch. And so chocolate being high in magnesium. I know like looking back that I was probably most likely deficient in magnesium. So it was my way to kind of get that magnesium that I needed
(37:09):
Mood altering chemical. Yeah.
(37:10):
Yes, yes. So I think that was part of it and because there was like comfort in that time where I could, I stayed home from school because my menstrual cycles were really bad and I could take a nap if I wanted to or relax or, you know, like I had a lot of freedom, so there's probably a connection there. And then in the house that I was living in there was black mold now, peanut butter. Oh. Being <laugh> mold related, I think it was just like the salty with the sweet, but then also almost fueling the mold that I was living in, in that environment. And so I think there was some environmental triggers where it was like, well you're already, I don't know. Somebody else can maybe tell us. Yeah. So it, it is just kind of interesting. And I, like I said before, I didn't even notice that I was doing some of these things until I brought it to, to the awareness through physically writing down what I was doing. And that, and so to kind of wrap this up, Jessica, what I'm thinking is about the listener, cuz they they've probably listened and hopefully had a lot of aha moments themselves, but what if they can't accept their body? Because I think one of the things is accepting the way that we are in order to be able to move forward.
(38:42):
I'm so with you on that, and it's really hard and you know, I will confide that at 49. My body's different than it's been before. I sort of just thought once I become an adult, like you're no longer growing out of clothes or things like that, you know, but no, not correct. Your body still continues to change. And then there's aging and the whole, you know, the society that tells you changing. Isn't good. You're supposed to look the same. So there's two pieces of an answer to your question. One is that I feel like you cannot like your body and still take care of it, right? Just like you cannot like your, your couch, but you don't rip it up or you cannot really like your car, but if you don't put gas in it, it's not gonna work. So if you don't like your body, I can't make you like your body, but I hope that you'll take care of it in some degree.
(39:32):
And it might actually be easier to take care of if you like it, but it also might be easier to like it if you take care of it. So hopefully it's like a cycle that builds on itself. But even if you don't like your body take care of the body, you've got cuz it's where you live. So that's sort of the downer kind of piece of advice. But the other aspect of it is that accepting your body. Isn't the same as saying like I love my body or I condone my body or I want this body forever. You're basically just saying, I accept it. It's kind of like, you know, mistakes happen. Like once I drove home from Fort worth and I was really tired and instead of driving east, I drove west for an hour and that meant, I now had a two hour drive to get back home to Dallas.
(40:16):
But if I oh, ma'am but if I hadn't accepted that I was in Fort worth and I was just like in denial, I could just be like, I'm almost home. I mean that doesn't actually help you. So accepting, only means accepting where you are doesn't mean staying where you are. I was not gonna spend the night in Fort worth just cuz I or wherever Palo Pinto county, just cuz I found myself there. But I had to accept that I had made a mistake and that's where I was in order to be able to turn around and get to the right place. And so that's that's my other piece of advice is don't put so much pressure or power into the word accept. Don't make it sound like accepting my body as is means it will stay exactly like it is forever because that's not correct. My body, your body, all of our bodies are gonna keep changing. We're just trying to accept where they are now. So it doesn't take up so much of our brain space and so much of our time wishing we had something else.
(41:07):
Yeah. Well and that, that kind of triggered something for me that I, I talk about with my clients is having these nutritional seasons where our body is evolving. Right? We go through different when you're 12 years old and you start your menstrual cycle for the first time is not the same as when you're, you know, 50, 40, 50, 60, and start menopause. You know, your nutritional needs are gonna be very, very different. And so it's not about I don't know exactly what I'm trying to say here, but it's about being okay with where you're at, but also knowing that the, the body is changing and evolving. Yeah. Maybe you can send that up a little bit better.
(41:51):
<Laugh> well, I think you just, you summarized what I said, like the idea of accepting your body doesn't mean it will always be this way. Like kind of like when you get a haircut that you don't like you, I mean, you can just pretend you didn't get a haircut, but it's not reality, right? This is the hair you've got and you have to accept it and try to work with it and try to care for it until, you know, hopefully you can see some growth. But your hair won't stay that in that style forever, it will grow. It will change. And you know, you have to accept it in order to be able to figure out how to make the best of it.
(42:23):
Yeah, absolutely. This was a wonderful conversation. I almost said lovely. And I was like, why would I say lovely? That's not, <laugh> normally in my vocabulary, but thank you Jessica. In closing, is there any last thoughts or anything you would like to share?
(42:43):
Yes. My main thing is get the shame outta there. There is nothing broken about you. You may feel broken and I'm not gonna tell you. You can't feel however you feel, but you are not the problem and telling someone else what you think makes you broken is actually the best thing you can do. If you're not ready to tell someone else, write it down, then you can at least look at it as if it was someone that you cared about or had compassion for. But the stuff that we do with our food does not make you a bad person. It's okay to feel like you regret it, but don't make it convince you that it's because you're a bad person.
(43:20):
Yeah. Wonderful. Thank you so much for being on. I really appreciate it and we will link everything up for you guys in the show notes. Perfect. And why don't you just tell the listeners where they can find you on social media and then we'll have all the links in the show?
(43:38):
Sure, sure. So Twitter, LinkedIn and Facebook are all Jessica Nik and Instagram is understanding nutrition.
(43:46):
Perfect. All right, well thank you. And we'll see you guys on the next,
(43:54):
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